Mindset Matters - Podcast Episode

Amanda van Gils
We can talk ourselves out of any, it’s so easy. You just try, try and talk yourself out of anything. You will always be able to find reasons. So one of the questions that I encourage people to ask is. How could this be possible? How could this happen?

Monique Storey
Welcome to The Optimistic Artist. I’m Monique Story. Artist, whisky enthusiast, and massive cheerleader of artists. I’m hugely passionate about helping artists discover their next step. By bringing the clarity, the strategy, and the inspiration you need to turn that art hobby of yours into a thriving art form.

Business. Whatever creative dream you’ve got hidden in your heart, I’m here to tell you it is possible. So get ready, my friend, this is the optimistic artist,

Amanda, it is so great to have you on the show. I’m really excited to interview you today. I love what you do. For those of you who don’t know Amanda, you are the founder of the Artist Business Lounge, which we’ll get into a little bit in a moment. One thing that I know about you is that your artist journey is not a linear one.

I mean, is anyone’s artist journey a linear one, but why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about how you became an artist and then ended up running the Artist Business Lounge? 

Amanda van Gils
Sure. Hi Monique. Thanks so much for having me and I’m happy to be here to share. So my artist journey, it’s. Linear, but not a straight line.

I wasn’t someone who grew up understanding what I wanted to be or do when I grew up, you know, and when I was about 14, 15, I came across a group of people who were art students and that led me into a path that I hadn’t seen before and it really did open my eyes and I knew instantly that that was the thing that I was here for. And it felt like I, it was just such a belonging. 

So I went down the path of doing formal education. I went through, had my bachelor of arts in fine art, loved being an art student. I cannot tell you how much fun that was. It was wonderful. And I was always very sincere and very committed. And there was just no question that this was the thing I was supposed to do.

But when I left art school, and this does really lead us into the artist business sledge. When I left art school, I didn’t quite have everything that I needed to put it together. So I spent a few years making work, having a studio and trying to get into different spaces. And after a couple of years of not really getting anywhere, I decided it was because I wasn’t good enough.

And I didn’t deserve it, and being an artist was so special, that how could I justify that this was the thing, and that I should settle for something more sensible. It was just my style. There was no reality in it. 

All it was, was that I didn’t truly know bits and pieces, puzzle, the parts of the puzzle of being an artist that I had, but I knew I was really good at that stuff.

I was a great arts student, I did really well and I really understood things, but there were just pieces of the puzzle I didn’t even know about. 

And so I allowed that failure in my mind to turn me away from art for a period of time. Strangely, though, when I’ve got other jobs, which were entirely accidental, I have to say, I did not plan any of the other things that happened in my career at all. And when they happened, I kept making decisions within the back of my mind at some point, this is the kind of job that I would be able to do as a consultant or a contractor. So I wouldn’t have to work full time. So I’d have enough time to make my art. 

So it never leaves you, does it? 

Oh, no, it doesn’t. It doesn’t.

And that’s why I tell people all the time, if you are called to be an artist, you will be an artist. You might take a gap of time. You might find a way around. And I guess. For me, it was a period of time that honestly, it was probably one of the most miserable parts of my life. So I don’t, don’t want to dwell on that when I wasn’t being an artist time too much, but it did give me opportunities to see other things and to learn other things and to realize just how important it was.

And I had to do a fair amount of inner work, which is why mindset is a part of what I do with other artists. And so I gave it up for a period of time, but what happened was that the pull just kept coming back and coming back and it was getting stronger and stronger. I’m going to use words that Brene Brown would not approve of.

I knew that if I didn’t find my way back to it, I would have been just ashamed and mortified if that was how my life had ended up. And so at that point I made a commitment to myself that I would return to study. And I was only going to go to one particular art school to do a graduate degree. And at the same time I was accepted, I was offered a promotion in the job I was doing.

Monique Storey
Oh my gosh.

Amanda van Gils
And so that’s one of those big leap kind of moments. And I just went, no, I just know that this is the thing that I would regret not doing if I didn’t do it. And that was the turning point because it was when I made real that commitment. And that was 24 years ago and so there was just no going back from that time.

And I know for a lot of people who go through becoming an artist, but they put it on the back burner when they have children or for other reason, and then they come back to it. I understand that, that sometimes we put things on the back burner, but then we bring it back. 

Monique Storey
Yeah. I just got absolute chills when you said, if you are called to be an artist, You will be an artist, might take you a little bit of time.

It might look different to what you expect it to look, but it’s just something that, you know, like you just, you know, that, you know, that it’s something that you’ve been called to do. And it’s this deep desire within you. Right. And I just find that if creative people aren’t being creative, they’re never fully fulfilled and happy.

Right. Because it’s something that’s just in you that you have to pursue backtrack a bit. Sure. Because you studied art and so you had all this experience and all this education. What do you think it was that made you give up? Because I know before you said that you were missing some key pieces. Did you know that you were missing key pieces of information, or is that more like hindsight?

Amanda van Gils
It’s hindsight. But also, I had incredibly high expectations of what I should be able to achieve, the timing in which I should be able to achieve it. The standards which I held myself and they weren’t necessarily realistic. And the other thing is, of course, when you go to art school, you go to art school to learn about art history, to learn about painting or whatever your medium is, learn to drool.

I mean, there’s all sorts of things that you learn. You don’t study revenue streams. And when you get to the other side, and to be fair, cause people say, well, they should teach all of this in art school. I’m telling you right now, when I was at art school, I wasn’t terribly interested in that stuff because learning how to paint and master my craft and explore art history and aesthetics and philosophy, that was amazing stuff.

I wasn’t at, at the other point yet. But it was like I needed another thing after art school. 

Yeah. I was just thinking that it’s almost like you need to do art school. Just focus on that and then do like an extra year of, okay, how do I turn this thing into a business that’s sustainable? And it’s pretty much what I’m doing now as a career.

And that’s why I said, I’ll sort of come back to that story is, I worked out what I needed to do, but it was really hard work and it took me a really long time. It was like two steps forward, one step back and so on. But once I decided that that was the thing and I impacted myself pretty significantly, it was just my looking back.

Monique Storey
So what was the difference between the first time and the second time?

Amanda van Gils
I did some work on my beliefs more than anything. Yeah. Self-worth, what I had permission to do. I just, it felt that it was indulgent to be an artist. And so that’s, that’s a lot of just childhood stuff, you know, so, so the big difference was I just wasn’t prepared to settle for not having art and being an artist in my life.

And I just knew that my life would never work out until I gave myself up fully to it. And, Rosalie, the year that I was at the VCA doing my Uh, graduate diploma was the year I met my husband, who’s also an artist. Amazing. And I just knew that, that, you know, I was not ever going to find my partner and my place in the world until I stepped into and owned who I am.

Monique Storey
Yeah. I love that. That’s amazing. So tell us a little bit, what’s the next part of the story? So you kind of, I guess, recommitted to pursuing your art career, then what happened?

Amanda van Gils
Well, and then I just worked really hard, um, no, and I was just so delighted to be at it again. I felt like a fresh start, so I committed, I did a year of study at the Victorian College of the Arts, which is, was a great place to go.

I just assumed from then on that that was the thing I was going to do. Now, of course, I also had skillset around the other things that I’d been doing in that gap between. It turns out I had quite a lot of business savviness that I hadn’t realized. So that became very useful. But I basically just got to work and set up a studio and started exhibiting.

And I think the last time I counted, I’m up to about 120. 

Monique Storey
Oh. How did you start exhibiting? 

Amanda van Gils
My very first exhibition was in an experimental space with an artist who had this shop front. It was just something that I started to do because once it went to the VCA, once I started meeting other people, it was just, there were just spaces.

So the first exhibition was a, an experimental and I did an installation and it was actually really good fun. And then I booked in another exhibition and then I extended on that. Well, I had a couple of shows, I was just hooked on having shows, so then I just. I looked around for calls for artists. I had always, had been going to galleries for a really long time, so I knew what kind of galleries were of interest to me.

Fast forward a couple more years and I had gallery representation in a few states and started showing in other places. 

Monique Storey
Two questions. What jobs did you do before you came back to art and what role do you think those played in helping you succeed the second time around? 

Amanda van Gils
I’m going to answer the second part first.

One of the strangest things was I was really quite successful in my other career cause I was a real creative thinker. And I know this because that was the feedback that they would always get a fresh and different perspective. But I fell into this thing called human resources that I didn’t actually even know what it was.

But I did a number of different roles within HR, which were much more sort of leadership development coaching. And process and planning. So there’s a lot of things that I learned in the different companies that I worked in. 

Monique Storey
I just love the way how in life, nothing is wasted. You know, even though you spend all of that time not pursuing the thing you knew you needed, the thing you were called to pursue, it still wasn’t time wasted because you increased your capacity and you learned all of these things.

Which no doubt contributed to your success the second time around. I think the biggest difference from listening to you from the first time around to the second time around is it sounds like there’s a really big shift in your mindset and your belief system and in your self worth. And one of the things that you say that I really love is beliefs are not facts.

I always want to ask you that what role do you find an artist’s beliefs and thinking and mindset play in their life, in their career, in their work? 

Amanda van Gils
Huge, huge, huge, huge. 

And I come to that not just from an art perspective, but I’ve done a lot of leadership coaching. So I’ve worked with people in all sorts of fields, and it always comes back to this same thing. And when you look at the way that brains are set up, and I’m not going to get into all of the neuroscience and the different pieces, but there’s so much research that shows that our brains are basically wired to believe that we’re correct and to keep us safe.

And so we form a set of beliefs that are designed to keep us. Safe, and if there’s one thing that keeps us safe, it’s not going out on a limb and trying something. And as an artist, you, you’re trying things all the time. You’re going out on a limb all the time, you have to be prepared to make mistakes.

There’s this real thing that goes on with your brain trying to keep you safe, and therefore you’re more likely to believe that it’s safe, it’s good not to do certain things. You’re more likely to believe that you will fail at something. It’s unfortunate, but that’s kind of how the brain is set up, so you have to be really aware of it.

And one of the things that I do when I’m working with artists is get them to work on building the evidence bank of what they actually can and have done, their possibility. And that was part of the shift for me too, was actually reclaiming what I had been able to do, rather than focusing on what I hadn’t done.

So it’s not just about being positive and positive thinking and let’s forget that we have any sorts of issues. It’s about having a good level of self awareness of who you really are and being prepared to challenge your stories. You know, the minute I hear someone say, Oh, I’m a starving artist, I know they’ve got a mindset issue.

It doesn’t mean that some artists can’t find it really difficult to make money. That phrase just tells you they’ve got mindset issues. 

Monique Storey
For sure. In your years of working with artists, have you seen any key beliefs that you see pop up like again and again that really hold artists back? 

Amanda van Gils
Yeah, totally.  Not being able to see what’s possible and being really stuck on, and I see this in things like, Oh, I’m a technophobe. I don’t know how to do that. I can’t do that. So I can’t. And so I can’t reach out to someone. I can’t do that because I’m no good at things. So it tends to be a really limiting.

I’m not worthy was, it’s a bit of a classic.

I’m too busy is a really interesting one. I’m too busy to invest in myself and my development because I just want this thing, but I can’t find a way to give it some time. 

There is no money to be had in the arts and it’s like, well, let’s just go and have a look at the evidence because that’s just a belief that is not a fact.

Monique Storey
Yeah, I have been doing a lot of thinking this week about just the importance of looking for the possible, because things, there’s always possibility, but a lot of it just comes down to mindset and sort of thinking about why something is not possible. Just shift it and think about what do I need to do to make this possible? Because it is possible. 

Amanda van Gils
Well, a question that I often have people ask themselves. Is instead of, because that thing about our brains keeping us safe, we can talk ourselves out of anything, it’s so easy. You just try, try and talk yourself out of anything. You will always be able to find reasons. So one of the questions that I encourage people to ask is how could this be possible?

How could this happen? And I also say, don’t try and be the author and the editor at the same time. 

Monique Storey
Tell me more about that. 

Amanda van Gils
So often what we do is we. So to that question, how could that be possible? Well, it could be possible this way and I get all excited because I’m the author. 

Oh, no, hang on. That’s not very realistic. I’m playing the editor. 

You can’t be the author and the editor at the same time. And if you really want to uncover what’s possible for you, you need to play the author. 

Monique Storey
Love that. 

Amanda van Gils
Now the editor can come back in and say, Hmm. Um, in order to really polish that story off, you’re going to need X, Y, and Z.And maybe let’s ditch a bit of this and that’s fine, but you can’t do the same, do both jobs at the same time. 

Monique Storey
Oh, I love that. I love that. So good. So what do you think are some of the best ways to overcome some of those limiting beliefs? Anything else other than focusing on what can be done? 

Amanda van Gils
I think building your self awareness is Huge. Actually understanding what your strengths are, who you are as a person, understanding also what you actually want, not what you think you should want. Because one of the things that I do see with artists is this idea about what it is to be an artist, and there isn’t only one way. There are so many different ways to be an artist, so understanding what that looks like for you.

That’s also really important. 

Monique Storey
Do you have any tips for helping artists uncover what their limiting beliefs are? 

Amanda van Gils
Yes, I do. And I even in my shop have a journal that I made for people. So journaling is a really great tool. Journaling and noticing the language that you use and doing memory sort of work. Where did things come from and assessing whether things are true. 

So there’s usually, it’s not too difficult to find a set of questions and I’m sure on the blog, I’ve got a few articles up, but really it’s getting that self awareness of Where did this belief come from?
What do I recall about that?
What does it mean?
What have I made it mean? Because if there’s anything we know people with. Meaning, making machines. We can make things mean all sorts of things. 
Does that actually serve me? 
Is it true? And if it’s true, does it matter, is the other thing. Sometimes things are true and sometimes things are really hard. Should that stop you?

What’s the next thing that you can do? Mm hmm. So, journaling and delving into memories are normally where you’re going to find anything to do with limiting beliefs. And if you’re surrounded by a community of people who say, it’s not possible, artists are starving and it’s difficult and da da da, and that’s the entirety of your community, you need to mix your community up a bit.

Monique Storey
Yes. Yeah. So true. It’s so important to have people who speak life and possibility into your heart. 

Amanda van Gils
I think that belief is certainly really important. It’s not the only thing, you know, but it’s the foundational thing. Yeah. Because without it, you can not take the action you’re going to take because you believe it’s not going to work.

Or you take it, you take the action, but you do it really poorly, execute it poorly, wrong time. And then you don’t hear back from someone and then, Oh, that’s just proof. There’s my evidence that I was right, that it’s going to work. So it’s all about which way you want your spiral to spin, whether it’s a doom spiral or a success spiral is entirely up to what the mindset shift is.

And then you need the strategies and the processes and the actual, you know, the, the doing the work. You can’t just wish it.

Monique Storey
Yeah. Oh, you are speaking my language, which is exactly why on the podcast, I love mixing it up because yes, we do need the actual practical strategies, but we also need the mindset because like you said, if you don’t have that mindset, if you don’t see yourself as a business owner, if you don’t look for what’s possible, if you don’t believe that your work is actually Then none of the strategies are actually going to help because like you said, you won’t implement them properly with your heart behind what you’re doing.

So you’re speaking my language. You mentioned something before that there was a big shift in your self worth. What role do you see self worth playing and an artist’s ability to sort of walk towards financial abundance and making the most of opportunities? 

Amanda van Gils
I think it’s really important, but you can have a really great career without being super positive, super confident all the time because we’re humans and there’s variables, but this deep seated belief, this is your path that and an understanding of who you are and your value.

I think that’s definitely there for financial abundance, but gee, there’s some work that needs to go into money mindset for a lot of people, not just for artists, but. More generally about the idea that it’s okay to want more and accept more. 

Monique Storey
Yeah. Let’s talk about money mindset and what are some of the shifts that you see needs to happen for artists when it comes around their thinking about money and art?

Amanda van Gils
Yeah. Well, it’s funny because there’s the thinking mindset, but there’s actually a practical part which together weaves in and makes a lot more sense. So if we’re doing work on limiting beliefs and understanding where that comes in, the money mindset. It has to be part of accepting that you, that people can earn money, accepting that you do deserve to earn money, but it’s also about accepting that it costs something to have a career.

So that’s that business side. But the, the money mindset beliefs are very, very much what we were talking about with other sort of mindset shifts and limiting belief shifts. It’s just that in that exercise, you’re focusing specifically on the financial side. So it’s all still about what are my beliefs around this?

What’s the evidence to it? 

Why do I believe this? 

And really unpacking it. 

And then it’s about getting really practical about creating a revenue plan, basically. But you can’t do a revenue plan until you know that it. That people aren’t going to change their mind on buying a painting or a drawing if you change the price by 50, which is what I see a lot of people, you know, they will sell their art for less than it’s cost them to make, they will sell their art for because they worry that people won’t buy things if they’re too expensive.

So one of the big money mindset shifts that they need to make is what is in someone else’s wallet is none of your business. What’s in your business is pricing your work accordingly. Mm hmm. You know, for your business. Someone is always going to be, that’s too expensive. Someone else is always going to be, that’s the right price, that’s too cheap.

You cannot get into other people’s wallets to determine your pricing. It’s probably the biggest shift. And the other part is the tendency to not seek out, be open for sales. Because they’re so sure that someone will say no, and I just don’t want to get the, the no. So staying away from selling because they’re worried about the impression that it might make that people might, you know, might say, no, let’s face it, none of us want the no.

So the biggest thing with money mindset shift is to think about the other people, not think about yourself.
By which I mean, when you’re thinking, Oh, people can’t afford it, you’re actually thinking about yourself. You’re thinking about your own anxiety. You’re thinking about your own circumstances, your own upbringing, whatever the case may be, or a set of beliefs that you don’t know for sure.

So that’s really is part of the most important thing about money mindset is appreciating that you’re not responsible for anyone else’s wallet.

Monique Storey
So how do you take the emotion out of it when you’re pricing your work?

Amanda van Gils
I’m going to say something that sounds really silly. I’m sure the experience has a lot to do with it.

It’s just getting used to it. If this is your profession. Then you’re going to need to work backwards from what’s the income that you need to achieve. And when you take it from that perspective and you do that work, then you’re going to be less likely to have an emotional response. One of the quickest ways to get past having an emotional response to a conversation about the pricing is to actually have your prices already established.

And so that, so that when someone asks you, Oh, is that for sale? You don’t go, Um, uh, yeah, um, uh, uh, and get yourself tied up in knots. Inserts. Yes, it’s this much. 

Monique Storey
Yeah. I can’t recommend that enough. Absolutely. Like actually even for commissions, having all of that stuff pre worked out. So that if someone is asking you about a commission, then you just send them a price guide.

So you don’t have to have that conversation, especially if you’re starting out and it’s someone that you know, you just, yeah, absolutely. I’m open for commissions. Here’s my price guide. If they can afford it, great. If they can’t, that’s okay, too. But having a document or some sort of price card that’s pre set up can just, yeah, take all that emotion, negotiation, scary conversation out of the picture.

Amanda van Gils
For sure.And what then happens is if someone can’t afford what they thought they wanted, then they can look at something else. So I had a buyer reach out, was really interested in a particular piece, hadn’t realized just how large the piece was. We had a bit of a chat and I understood it was for a gift and I just asked her some questions to understand what she was actually after, what it was about that piece that really spoke to her because it was well outside of her budget.

And I said, okay, based on that, I have a couple of pieces I’d like to show you. Let me just show you this one. Once we’d established what her budget was and she was over the moon, delighted. And so I still got a sale out that I didn’t discount that price. The other piece, here’s something that I think might meet that.

Oh, it’s much easier, it’s so much easier to cope with it once you’ve got pricing established. And there’s no sticker shock for people if you happen to have a price that’s handy because I don’t know about you, but if I walk into somewhere and I’m interested in buying and I have no idea how much anything is, I’m not really likely to ask.

Monique Storey
That’s so true. Absolutely. And I think that’s one of the big reasons why people don’t reach out about commissions. It’s because they’re scared of accidentally committing to something and they have no idea how much it’s going to cost. So that’s why I think having a price guide is really, really helpful because it demystifies the process.

People are scared as it is to talk to artists and to talk about commissions and art because they like, Oh, I’m not an artist. What if I say the wrong thing? I don’t know how it works. So making it as easy as possible for people to see your price points and to have a price guide really helps kind of demystifies the process for people.

Okay. Now, one thing that I know about you is that you love systems and processes, and you told me before that those two together as what enables an artist to experience success. I would love for you to tell me more about that because I love both of those things. Love a good system. And I know the power of actually sorting in your beliefs, so.

Tell me more about that. 

Amanda van Gils
Well, the beliefs part is that you have to believe it’s possible and get yourself into it. Yep. I deserve this and I’m fully committed and it’s okay to be a little bit shaky on it, but I’m going to take action. And then the systems or the processes, uh, how do I actually then take the action that I need?

So I’m really big on getting clarity on what your vision is because as I said before, plenty of different ways to be an artist. What is it that you want to achieve? And then break it down into the goals and then it becomes a bit of a process. So some of that is automated systems because they save you a tonne of time.

And some of them are just, I’m going to make this really simple so you’re not reinventing every time. You know, this is the process that I use to get my work documented. This is the process that I use to plan out an exhibition. This is the process that I use for selling work via my website. I mean, it’s just.

Understanding the steps you take so you don’t have to reinvent them every single time. But one of the things that I find artists can do too much is think that they need to do everything in their business because there’s a lot of levers for an artist to pull when you’re having a career and when you’re wanting to have a sustainable business.

There’s quite a few levers to pull and unfortunately often we think we have to do everything ourselves, like bookkeeping. Here’s a system, here’s a process. People get all anxious. Like, just get a bank account that is just for your art. Get an online bookkeeping system. And there are some free ones around.

And link that to the bank feed. And you just need a bookkeeper who can help you a little bit to do the setup if you don’t do it yourself. And then it’s a really, really easy process. And it saves time.

Monique Storey
There’s this real tension with artists between being committed to The business side of their art and making a living, but also feeling like they just want to pursue the passion of their craft.

So how do they balance the passion for their craft with actually making a living? 

Amanda van Gils
With understanding that the craft is the part of making the living, like the business isn’t in isolation. Um. Making the work. I, I talk about having a sustainable art career and I talk about, you know, a few different elements of it.

And one of those is the work. But what can happen is people think that the work is enough and the work isn’t enough. Um, the work might be enough for creative fulfillment, but if you want to make a living and have a sustainable career, there are other things that go on and all of the successful artists do other things.

But it’s about understanding that you don’t have to necessarily do everything yourself. So having good visibility of what needs to happen and then putting in place systems, outsourcing, whatever’s necessary to look after certain parts of it and getting on with the work. But also it’s about your expectations of what it is to run a business.

So your expectations aren’t that you get to make. 98 percent of your time. And most of the artists, if you go around and have a look at exhibitions of artists who have been quite successful, once you sort of drill into their, their work days and their routines, they’re actually not creating a hundred percent of the time either.

Um, because they’re connecting with the people who are important to bring their work to life. If you have that really good level of gallery representation where they do all the marketing and so on. That’s, they’re still connecting with those people. Okay. So there’s always other things that are going on.

I remember years ago, and this was about the time of that big shift for me going back. And I read an article in The Age, I lived in Melbourne at the time, and they still used to have a newspaper, and they still used to have, um, arts writers. And Tim McGuire, who’s a wonderful painter, he was talking about his day, it was the first time I’d ever heard an artist talking about this, and he talked about the way he schedules out his week. You know, this is the date, contact. Collectors and follow up and galleries and these are the days when I go to exhibitions and I go here and I go here and these are the days where I make the work. 

And so the answer to your question is you need to put everything into your schedule. You don’t have to be a rigid scheduled kind of person, I’m personally not, but you have to be aware of where you’re putting your time and energy.

If your goal is to have a career that earns you money, then your activity, you have to choose activities that include doing that. 

The caveat on that is that I do often see people spending way too much time on their marketing and nowhere near enough time on really developing the work. And so that’s about, let’s have some clever systems around the marketing, and you know, not, not try and go too much that way.

Monique Storey
I think sometimes I should see. The, all the things that are required to make a living, they see that as fighting against having time to pursue their passion, but those two things work in tandem because it’s all of the things like the marketing and the connections and the shows and the admin, all of those things aren’t the enemy because those things enable you to actually sell more work.

And guess what? When you sell more work. You have more time and freedom and flexibility to be able to create more work. So the, the business side of that is the friend of the creative side of it, because if you want to really be making art for a living, you need to be making money. So seeing the, seeing the, the admin and the marketing, not as the enemy, but seeing those things as the thing that enables you to then keep on making art year after year after year as a mindset shift that I think a lot of artists need to make too.

Amanda van Gils
Yeah, there are different ways to go about it, and certainly, there’s a lot of people who are self represented these days, and social media has really changed that equation. There are a lot of people who still, I just want to work in the gallery system, and that is entirely fine, because, honestly, you find a great gallery, they’re amazing what they can do for you.

But. If you don’t have them yet, you’re the only person who can look after this stuff. And so having enough of the know how to do it. 

Now I also know plenty of artists who don’t actually need to make a living from their art because they’re in a family situation or situation where don’t really require an income to coming in. And that doesn’t make them any less of an artist. 

So it really always comes back to you, what your vision is and what you need. But even for those that don’t necessarily crave the sale, what they do want is an audience for their work. And so there’s always purpose in having those goals. There’s always purpose in what’s, what are the things that I need to do to make sure that I have an audience and to make sure that I get whatever level of sales that I need and to make sure that I connect with the kinds of publications, curators, galleries, buyers, you know, whoever the people are, whoever your particular audience is. 

Monique Storey
Yeah. Can you think of any artists that you’ve worked with or any stories of artists who have shifted their mindsets and their processes? Do you have any inspiring stories for us about artists?

Amanda van Gils
Sure I do. Peter Brook, he went through the formal art education and painting, but he wanted some structure. And his first goal was to just to reignite his career and get into a small group show. He ended up with. International press, international sales, and all the, and exhibitions booked out partially because he was really committed and organized a structure for himself, and he implemented some processes and he just sort of got down to brass tacks and started doing things that would move the needle for him. So he’s, he’s got, um, three commercial gallery shows this year, I think. 

And there’s another artist and this, this one’s much more of a mindset shift. Um, and her exhibition opening is tomorrow night. Um, and where this is Gillian Richards and she lives on the Gold Coast, when we first started working together,  I’m a technophobe, I’m no good at this, I can’t work this stuff out, and it was very, nervy. But had, you know, core of steel in there. And then she went on to have her first exhibition, to have her website, to revamp the website, to implement a mailing list, to implement Instagram, to get all of those things going.

She’s got a two person exhibition, opening tomorrow. It’s really adventurous and, and really fascinating work that she’s worked really tirelessly on and she’s built her community too. So, you know, there’s some really nice stories there. 

Monique Storey
Oh, it’s amazing what’s possible. When you either have that mindset shift or you just have the right strategy or you just have someone to show you the next step, right?

Amanda van Gils
It’s just having that self belief and having enough know how and just keeping going, you know, cause that’s one thing that I never see as an issue for artists is their commitment. Artists are the most resilient and most committed group of professionals that I’ve ever had the pleasure to work with because once it’s got you, it’s got you.

Monique Storey
Yeah, that’s true. Such a big part of the picture is just not giving up. Speaking of being committed for the long haul, that’s something that I’m really passionate about is whatever it is that we’re doing, whatever we are pursuing as artists, we need to do it in a way that is sustainable for the longterm.So how can artists develop a longterm plan for a sustainable art business? 

Amanda van Gils
Um, treat it like a business, have really clear vision and clarity of what’s important to you and understand yourself about what’s really important to you, um, so that you can not chase the shiny objects, get distracted because we know as artists, we hear how many times, Oh, I’d like to meet your work as NFTs. Oh, this sounds like it’s interesting. Never even dreamt of doing NFTs before. If it’s not part of your practice, it’s part of your practice. Don’t worry about it. 

So really that being really disciplined about. Where you want to spend your energy and actually just understand the business of the business you’re in.

Monique Storey
Isn’t focus just so important? 

Amanda van Gils
It’s focus and you need to understand your vision to be able to get to your, your strategy, to your goals so that you can be focused on it because you’re all spending time and energy on your art. It’s let’s spend the time and energy on art in a way that’s going to propel the career forward.

Monique Storey
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that you actually need to have a clear vision before we can be focused. Because I think a lot of artists get overwhelmed because they don’t have focus. And so they just chase the next shiny thing like, Oh, this person’s doing prints. Also I’ll do prints or this person’s doing shows.

I’ll do shows. And it’s just, it can be so overwhelming if you’re just jumping from one thing to the other. Whereas if you have focus, you can really focus more. What is my goal? What is. What’s being successful artists mean to me. And when you have that focus, I find it just actually eliminates overwhelm, which is the feeling that most artists tell me that they feel it’s just completely overwhelmed.

Amanda van Gils
Well, there’s a lot of, because when you talk about the possibility, the thing is, as an artist, everything’s possible. And so one of the hardest things is. Um, deciding that you’re not going to focus on different things. It’s almost you to don’t list rather than to do list, you know, it’s that I am not going to be distracted by those things, but you don’t want to be so rigid that you don’t have flexibility for your creative muscle.

One of the questions I’ve had people come and say, Oh, I’ve got this opportunity. What do you think? And I say, before that came into your inbox, would that in any way have come into your mind as being part of your plan of what you would strive for? And you’re like, Oh, no, it wouldn’t have. Okay. So why are we talking about this?

Monique Storey
Yes.

Amanda van Gils
Ultimately, it’s up for every artist to decide. We’re allowed to make mistakes, we’re allowed to try things and go off kilter. But if what you want is success, you absolutely need some focus. 

Monique Storey
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, okay. Before we go on to some quick fire, can you tell us what are you working on at the moment and where can we connect with you?

If artists want to know more about you and the Business Lounge, where can they connect with you? 

Amanda van Gils
Okay, great. Thank you. So the Artist Business Lounge is on the web, on Instagram, and on Facebook as Artist Business Lounge in all of those places. So just type that in, there’s quite a few different things that are going on, but the Business Lounge.

The main signature program, it’s basically a how to be an artist guidebook, but in course form with accountability. We focus on mindset, but also the knowledge, the skill, the strategy and accountability. And that’s called the success system program. And it’s got all the things that you could possibly need.

And it’s 12 months of everything that you could need. So those people that said, I haven’t had an exhibition in 15 years and I want one, and now they’re having exhibitions so often that they kind of forget to mention that they’re having exhibitions. They’re the kind of people that are taking through the success system program.

Monique Storey
Oh, amazing. And I’ll make sure to link to all of that in the show notes as well. Okay. Are you ready for quick fire? Okay. What are you obsessed with at the moment?

Amanda van Gils
I’m continually making programs and courses that different things that definitely others. That’s my obsession right now. 

Monique Storey
Oh, amazing. Favorite studio snack. 

Amanda van Gils
Oh gosh, this is a confessional. Um, barbecue shapes paired with a glass of Shiraz. 

Monique Storey
Oh, I like, I come here for a bit of that. And what do you listen to while you paint?

Amanda van Gils
Oh, I listened to the same stuff I’ve been listening to for a lot of years, depends on the mood. Um, I’m a big fan of go betweens, the triffids, that sort of thing, but disco can show up in my playlist. It just depends on the mood. I can do a bit of nineties, I can do a bit of jazz. It just depends. But remember I went to art school in the late eighties, so there’s definitely some overhangs.

Monique Storey
Oh, amazing. Last one. What are you grateful for at the moment? 

Amanda van Gils
That those five years where I didn’t do what I knew I needed to do, gave me such clarity on what was most important to me, that I’ve built my life and my career and my business and my family around that. So. So amazing. I’m grateful for going back to it.

Monique Storey
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. I just think you do such an amazing job showing artists what’s possible. 

I kind of see your life as, as the sculpture in life, we have sculptures and we have statues and we, we build those to mean things and to remind people of things. And I just think the way that you run the artist business lounge, the way that you interact with artists, the way that you tell your story is like a monument.

It’s a monument of what is possible. It’s a monument of what is possible when you have mind shift.
It’s a monument of the fact that nothing is wasted. Even the years where you didn’t pursue. 

Your art career, there were still really valuable things that came out of that season. I see your life and the way that you live and the way that you support artists as this monument that artists can look at to see what is possible for them too.

And I think that’s a really beautiful thing. So lucky to have you in the art community, supporting artists. 

Amanda van Gils
I’ve had a lot of artists helping me on the path to getting here too, so. It’s such a pleasure to work with other artists and to see the support that artists have for each other. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast and I’m so glad that you’re doing this for artists.

Monique Storey
The best way forward is one step at a time. And by listening today, you just took one more step in the direction of your dreams. 

Until next time, go and find your possible.